Mary Coughlin: [00:00:00] Share a little bit about how did you arrive at your current role? I mean, I think about, I think when we first met, I don't know why, but I have this memory of you and I sitting on a bus together. Is that, is that correct? Were we going somewhere or it, I mean, many, many, many, many, many years
Patti Bondurant: ago, many years ago, I mean, I think we both had dark hair then.
Mary Coughlin: But we did have dark hair back then. Oh my goodness. I isn't that terrible? I was just, you know, I was trying to think of when I first, you know, first
Patti Bondurant: met. Was it at one of the Sanova meetings? I think it was a Sanova meeting. We were on our way to to Naples, Florida to go shopping, weren't we Miriam?
There
Mary Coughlin: you go. You've got a better memory than me. I just remember sitting next to you on a bus. Yes, we
Patti Bondurant: were, we left we were down in the, where were we? What was the name of that place?
Mary Coughlin: Yeah. Marco Island. Marco
Patti Bondurant: Island. Right. They hired a bus to take us to everything. But[00:01:00] what was the name of that jewelry place?
Remember had all that. Oh, is it the Brigham?
Mary Coughlin: Brigham? Brighton? Is it? Was
Patti Bondurant: it? No, it was everything. What's the name of it? It's in Naples, Florida. Florida. We got dropped off. And we shopped. Do you remember that? I do remember the shopping. It was, it was probably 20 years
Mary Coughlin: ago. I knew it was a real long time ago, and I am so in awe of you to remember so much detail.
Patti Bondurant: Well, if it was a bus, that's the only, cause you didn't come to the NIDCAP meeting and No, I
Mary Coughlin: didn't. No, no, just the lead.
Patti Bondurant: I would have been a bus was in Brest, France when we we did a trip. And I think the only other time would have been our, it, we probably did something around developmentally supportive care at that meeting.
We guessed Oh, yeah, I'm sure
Mary Coughlin: we did talk about it. Well, that was when Kathy Bush was really running Sanova and and. I was part of children's medical ventures at that time. So that [00:02:00] was really kind of my connection with all of that experience. But that's been, I mean, so you you're guesstimating around 20 years, that sounds pretty on point.
And from that point, I remember at the time, I think you were the director of the NICU at Cincinnati Children's Hospital. And now you've made so many evolutions in your professional practice, identity, career, all that kind of stuff to include entrepreneurial adventures. And so, you know, I'm just kind of wondering, you know, how, you know, how has that evolution gone for you?
How where are you at right now?
Patti Bondurant: I would say my path, Mary's been not traditional and somewhat circuitous but, but I would say intentional more intentional than I would have imagined. I, I knew I was never going to be cut out for a chief nursing officer position. It wasn't my goal as a clinical nurse specialist, which is, you know, [00:03:00] I, I became a clinical nurse specialist when I was 25 years old.
I realized that the, the love of my profession was around making care better for babies and kids. Yeah. I will tell you 35 years later, that's still my goal. And I felt getting too far away from being able to impact care was not always my passion or my need. But I also realized I needed to have some ability to make strategic decisions when I was no longer close enough to the bedside to do that.
Yeah. So I would say my, my career has been impacting. The care and outcomes of babies by multiples. I think that's the way I would describe it starting as a staff nurse I realized that, you know, the my three patient assignment was important on day to day, but very early on in [00:04:00] my career I had a bigger vision about how I could impact care for kids.
Yeah, I went on to University of Washington and became a clinical nurse specialist as a result of my two year program there. And I was the only student asked to stay on for my PhD, but I was young. I didn't feel like it was a point in time that I was ready to stay on for school. I wanted to get back in and do what I was trained to do as a clinical nurse specialist and loved being a clinical spec because I felt there was a population then I could impact rather than my daily assignment as a staff nurse.
And I think. I started ~publishing. I started~ focusing on the developmentally supportive care that I was able to deliver to mostly my under three population through high risk follow up clinic, through developmental clinic, recognizing that I had found my niche. Early on in my career as a clinical nurse specialist at [00:05:00] Newington Children's Hospital, I was able to I ran the muscular dystrophy clinic in the cerebral clinic for kids with cerebral palsy.
And you may or may not know this, but I skied professionally. No, I did not know that. I did. And I I would go to clinic and we, it was back when we started the gate labs. Do you remember when gate labs were important? Back in the early 80s, when we were starting to look at kids with cerebral palsy and understanding before we did surgery on them, you know, what were the forces that were driving these poor gates and the energy expenditure.
And it made me think one day while I was out skiing, how could I can impact these kids in a joyful way. And I went to the place that I was doing business with, I was representing Atomic the ski equipment. bindings. And I went to the as a rep, I went and I said, I really want to start a ski program for kids with cerebral palsy.
And he said, what do [00:06:00] you need? I'll give you all the equipment. Oh my
Mary Coughlin: gosh, that's so amazing, Patty. Yeah,
Patti Bondurant: and so I got a friend of mine, so 30, that was in 1983, this ski program started. I ran it for two years, so I got permission from the Director of Orthopedics at New England Children's and my CNO to take.
I think it was 12 kids we had in the program, it we chose them specifically for their ability and disability to take them to Mount Southington in Connecticut on Friday during the winter, and I had five other ski instructors that helped me and we ran the ski program for these kids for the two years and then I went off to graduate school, but I got.
A text from a friend of mine in Hartford saying, Pattie I want you to know that the ski program is still going. That was two years ago.
Mary Coughlin: Oh my goodness. What a lovely legacy.
Patti Bondurant: Yeah. And you know, I just wanted these [00:07:00] kids to enjoy,
you know, they struggle to move every single day. And when I got this one kid, his dad was a professional football player. Had left inner city kid from Hartford. His single mom strong. She taught me a lot about being a strong woman. And I got this kid on skis past the quad and I was, he was, I was skiing down backwards.
I was holding his, the tips of his skis together. And he looked at me in his very dysarthric way and said, Patti, I've never been able to move like this in my life. Oh my goodness. It was, anyways, I, it was my joy skiing professionally. I wanted these kids to feel the joy and the ease and movement of gliding and feeling the freedom of the movement.
And I think we [00:08:00] accomplished that. Oh my goodness. Yeah, so it was, it was kind of my moment to say, I have the power as a woman and as someone that has you know, good brain, I was blessed with a good brain to be able to extrapolate this, not just through the ski program, but everything that I was able to accomplish.
I wasn't always successful and I learned, I took the opportunities to learn from people who wanted to teach me and I took the opportunities to learn how to resurrect myself from people who didn't believe in me. Yeah, yeah. And I think those were the two most important lessons that I've learned over the last 35 years of being a nurse.
So impacting the populations, probably the most vulnerable populations by multiples became sort of my mantra for my career. So, you know, I went on to, from a clinical nurse specialist to a manager over a group of APRNs as I was doing, running the zero to three clinic. And then I was My CNO saw something in me [00:09:00] that I didn't see in myself yet when I was 30, late 30s, and she said, Petty, the director of the NICU position is open.
And I want you to apply for it. And, yeah, so I said, I don't know that I have the qualification. She said, I know you do. So that was at Cincinnati Children's and I applied for the position. anD it, you know, the orientation was once I got the job was here are your keys, here are your desks, go do the job.
Oof! Yeah. Like all of us. I had no idea what I was doing. So 14 years into it, I, you know, I was in I was the director, the senior director. I took other areas of the hospital on. But, you know, I was able to bring the NCAP program to Cincinnati Children's, which helped, again, affect kids in in multiples because I couldn't do it alone as the director or the senior director and had a, a NCAP team of 12 nurses that were NCAP certified.
It brought an environment of nurturing and [00:10:00] love to that unit that was sorely needed in the level four NICU, you
Mary Coughlin: know? The thing just even recently, and I'm sure you have so many stories of how you have impacted the lives of babies, children, families, your colleagues, but then this really cool adventure where I, I kind of felt like I reconnected with you and the work that you're doing was with the AAP and the verification project.
And I, you partnered with Anne Stack and others on that project. Am I, am I remembering
Patti Bondurant: correctly? Yes, you're right. ~Yeah. So it's been almost we, I was, gosh,~ I was at Texas Children's as a vice president for women's and infants at that point. And it was Dr. Charles Hankins who was one of the neonatologists that I worked with.
Do you know Charles? I know
Mary Coughlin: him. I mean, I don't know him personally, but I know of him. Yeah.
Patti Bondurant: Great guy. You know, he's very intuitive and he sat me down. I put in my resignation to Texas Children's. He said I, I, my family was still in Cincinnati. There were multiple things going on at that time. And he took me to lunch and he said, Pattie you know, we're just starting this [00:11:00] work on revising the levels of care document 2012 by Dr.
Ann Stark. The neonatologists that are working on this realize that we can't do this without a nurse and a nurse leader and we think you've got all the work the dna to get this done so i joined them i think it was 2014 we started 2015 we started the work together and we culminated in our you know verifying nick use in texas Starting that in 2016 we were a subcontractor of DSHS in Texas who said there are kids that are dying, the mortality rate had increased, these kids are not getting to the right level of care~ the Medicaid dollars will be held every NICU that will not verify their level of care.~
Wow.~ Yeah, that they~ so Medicaid dollars were at risk for those that did not decide to verify. So we were one of the subcontractors for the DSHS team to say, we'll come in and verify. We did probably about ~80 verified. ~85 plus NICUs[00:12:00] in Texas. Our leadership team were the,~ we're~ verifying team that included several neonatologists.
I think there's a total of eight of us and three nurses, two nurse practitioners, me as the nurse leader and the verification work demonstrated. That we were able to design what we believed based on our experience, what each level of care needed to say they could deliver to designate them as a level two level three or level four NICU.
And that work culminated in now the national standards that we published in June.
Mary Coughlin: Yeah. Incredible. I am. I remember you presenting this work at the Nant conference, many years ago, and it was just incredible. I mean I was really blown away that the Academy had invited nurses to be part of this. this whole process, [00:13:00] because again, you know, I mean, nurses are there, you know, the front line of the care.
And if you can't get them engaged, at least from my perspective, nothing else really matters. So it was, it was really a powerful presentation and subsequent publication. And so has it gone national? Are you finding that now there is a requirement at that national government level or national healthcare level that NICUs need to be verified?
In order to receive funding.
Patti Bondurant: Yeah, it's a, it's a good question, Mary. Most, ~you may already know this, but most~ states are self verifying states. ~Yes. ~And the, ~the~ work that's been done on self verification demonstrates that there's not a lot of efficacy around self verification. Yeah. And other states have stepped up and said, We are going to make the standards of care based in our state based on what the AP standards are now that are published.
So, several states have come forward, but as excitingly NICUs have come forward and said, we're not going to wait for our state. We [00:14:00] want to make sure we're delivering the level of care that the AAP expects us to do that. So we did A really important seminar through AAP for the clinical leaders group which is mostly made up of medical directors of NICUs all over the country.
~And we held a, ~Dr. Stark and I did a seminar in person seminar with them at one of the meetings in Arizona. We had about 90 people standing room only in the room and probably 150 people on, ~on~ the call. And what we did is we said to the medical directors, We'd like to make sure that, you bring your dyad partner, your nursing leader partner with you to listen to what we're starting to construct and what we're proposing.
It was specifically around the quality and safety standards, Mary, and to say, ~we cannot deliver ~the purpose of us doing this is this is the ultimate quality and safety program as a construct. And so I had the opportunity to ~write it. pretty much author. I had a co author, but~ pretty much author the quality and safety [00:15:00] standards for the AP verification program.
And we, we got a lot of feedback from that team, good feedback from the folks that participated in that session, and they are now an integral part of the verification
Mary Coughlin: program. That's incredible. Yeah. I mean, so for all of these experiences and, and that process in particular, how have well, or has, maybe that's a better question, has this journey then really helped you get a more deeper understanding or insight of what you're doing?
About the needs of pediatric population in general, because I mean, I know you did you have spent a lot of time in the NICU population, but it does sound like you, you know, you really do encompass that that larger pediatric population. Do you see that there are needs that maybe you didn't really appreciate on first blush and and how can healthcare address those needs now in a more meaningful way with with all the work and discoveries that you've
Patti Bondurant: made.
Yeah, [00:16:00] I, I think we're early on in our our journey of gathering the data because we're doing that. Now we're putting together a database. A lot of it was pretty anecdotal based on what we learned in Texas, Mary, but I think. Really, this is my perspective, and I can't speak for the entire leadership team, but I, I would tell you one of the things that I've witnessed is that we this has, this work, the AP NICU verification has been a guidepost for medical directors and nursing directors to say, this is who we are, and this is what we need to do, and the environment we need to construct to safely care for these, these babies and their families.
It was all encompassing, Mary, you know as well as I do, how it's a team sport in the NICU, and in how we engage our families, and, and caring for these babies, and because part of our verification work is, That we have time with the [00:17:00] families. Yeah, that we need to know that are, you know, we have to understand we are not just making assumptions about what we know about the delivery of care, but we need to hear from our families.
That we've got a board engagement at the highest level of the organization to make sure that the board understands that the NICU is the front door of care for many families in our communities, and how important that that first impression and, and The developmentally supportive care and the long term consequences if we don't do what we say we do, right?
Yeah, exactly. That our families in our community suffer at the hands of all of us that are given the gift of caring for these babies in these families early on.
Mary Coughlin: It's, it's so much bigger than the disease, you know, their needs are so much bigger and I still see folks today still, I'm not saying that the disease is not important, but these individuals need so much more and it can't be [00:18:00] looked at as You know, fluff or something extra.
It is integral and and in in exquisitely interconnected into their entire experience and journey through that disease process and the hospital experience.
Patti Bondurant: Yeah, yeah, you marry you say something that's really important. One of the things that I've learned along this journey, and I would say most of our leader, AP leadership will tell you the same, but my experience is understanding how much I have learned and absorbed through not just NIDCAP, but our therapists, you know, I do, I I'm a great supporter of the NANT work and You know, some of the delivery of care that we have to do to save these babies is physicians and nurses in the NICU is traumatizing to the baby traumatizing, you know, neurochemically traumatizing to these babies, [00:19:00] and to these mothers and to the caregivers.
And I look at this being a team sport and how important it is that We balance some of the the brutal things that we need to do to these babies on a daily basis with the warmth of our skin to skin with the the interdisciplinary team of our therapists that provide the therapeutic guidance to our often our nurses and the physicians from a developmental standpoint and how It's such a delicate balance for us on a daily basis, and these big level three and level fours to say, how do we make sure that we get these kids physiologically where they need to be stable, but also balance the developmental and emotional needs of these babies and these families in a meaningful way.
It is It is a balance on an everyday basis when I go into these NICUs and you know, some people say they do this, other people give lip [00:20:00] service to it, there are other places that are remarkable in balancing that well, but it's not standard, and you know that as well as I do, right?
Mary Coughlin: No, you're absolutely right.
And I think, you know, folks really struggle. And I understand, you know, some of the you know, perceived, you know, safety challenges with this, you know, it's, it's a skill, just like anything else, learning to balance, you know, the, the, the technical skills and, and, and that, you know, piece of the care with the human aspects of engaging with other during, and you use a really Thank you.
Good word, brutal, you know, during some of these really brutal medical interventions that are necessary to save their individual's life, but in the absence of that individual feeling seen and feeling loved through that brutal experience, then it really it becomes maltreatment, you know, that we need to find that, that compassion within us, because not only will it mitigate and ameliorate that.
Lived experience for [00:21:00] that little individual, but for us as well, knowing that, I know this sucks, but you know what? I'm here for you. Your mommy's here for you. Or you know, I mean, we're gonna help you get through this so that you learn resilience, you cultivate resilience and understand that bad things happen in life, but you, you can get through bad things.
Yes. With another.
Patti Bondurant: Right. Yeah. And I think that's a really important point, Mary, that I found that as a leader in a NICU and in women's services that, yes, we really had to balance the technical piece of what we did with the love and nurturing. Guess what, once those babies are stable, the love and nurturing is going to allow the parents to connect with them and go home and become vital parts of our community.
And I, you know, I had the gift of backing into the NICU after serving these families in these babies in the zero to three environment in the community, as well as in the hospital. [00:22:00] I witnessed firsthand the consequences of us not doing our job. Well,
Mary Coughlin: yeah, yeah, it's it's pretty. Yeah, distressing and disturbing, because it doesn't have to be that way.
But I think kind of coming back to something you had said earlier about. You knew you had there was a bigger vision for you and and being at that bedside. It's certainly, you know, important. And, and valuable, you know, and you love, you know that, that real intimate experience with the patient, but you have the opportunity as a leader, as an educator, as a, you know, a.
All of all of the things right to touch even more lives. As you know, a leader as an entrepreneur and I and I know that that's another. It feels like a newer dimension of your evolution of your career and your role. Can you share a little bit about those aspects of your professional identity.
Patti Bondurant: Yeah, I I, so I, I go back to the idea of, you [00:23:00] know, I really am an example of the road less traveled and hoping that other nurses will embrace that the CNO, and listen, I'm not, not dissing the CNO position.
It's a very important and relevant position for people that want to do that work. I do think that as nurses, we are smart. We are powerful that we have an opportunity to change the course of care besides being in the CNO role. And I, that was my road less traveled Mary. Yeah, I, I was able to see that early on and how I could impact.
Once I ~was a I ~left my role as a vice president. ~I saw,~ I was asked to come to the commercial side and I ended up running. I was the CEO of ~a company of you know I, I, ~the Z flow and Sundance, ~I ran that ~company. I did the clinical trial at Cincinnati children's on it. And it was able to see how that particular product was able to increase the, ~the sleep, weight, the~ deep sleep and ~the deep look studying the weight, sleep, wake cycle~
sleep wake of the babies that we enrolled in this study. [00:24:00] Yes, it wasn't a powerful study. There were less than 45 babies, but I was convinced enough to say that if we can increase deep sleep in this small population of babies, and we know what happens in deep sleep, that these babies, brains develop and they heal better that I was sold.
Yeah. When I left, ~I left ~my position at the hospital and took the CEO position. ~And I, of course, I love the product and ~I think I was a good spokesperson for the work that we did at Cincinnati Children's using this product. We were then quickly within 10 weeks of me taking the CEO position acquired by a big international entity.
So I had the opportunity of taking the company through the earn out learning of the business side of that, not necessarily loving it, but recognizing it was adding to my skills. I stayed in that position for three years, but in the meantime, I had a lot of people as we continued the work with the AP at a lot of people say, Pattie we need your [00:25:00] skills.
Will you consult to us? And that, that started to become the birth of my consulting on quality and safety and on governance structures and, and empowering nurses not just in NICUs, but in most, many pediatric hospitals around how do I incorporate quality and safety~ into the work that~ into the care that I deliver and the strategy strategy.
Of governance and how that empowers nurses to do that work that they need to do in nurse leaders, the work they need to do around quality and safety. And so that's what I focused on for the last almost 4 years. Now, Mary is my consulting work. And my executive coaching that really incorporates all the elements of what I was gifted as a nurse leader.
And now again, impacting nurse leaders and staff and, and babies ultimately in multiples by the work that I'm doing.
Mary Coughlin: I love it. I love it. I mean, for me you [00:26:00] really exemplify what it is to care out loud. And I don't know what you thought when you saw that that name, you know, did you think, oh, she's a nutcase.
I don't know what it it is. I loved it. Oh, yay. .
Patti Bondurant: I loved it. Mary. I, well, it spoke to me about you too. I have to say that. Oh, God. Love you, , because I think you were an early. Spokeswoman for what should have been an elemental piece of care. And I think you brought that to life through the work that you did.
Mary Coughlin: Oh, thank you so much. ~Thank you very, very much.~ I really appreciate that. ~You're so kind. I I, I,~ I just wanted to kind of get your insight and maybe like. Besides the compliment, which I'm super grateful for for you, what did it mean then, you know, so you loved the, ~the love, the~ term care out loud. How would you describe that?
What does it mean to you then to care out loud?
Patti Bondurant: Yeah. Well for me, it means that it wasn't never about me. Making a name for myself, Mary. I, people will tell you that I'm, I'm not very [00:27:00] good at promoting myself. That wasn't why I went into nursing. Funny, my brother, ~who will be burying on Saturday,~ would always, you know, I complain about the work hours.
I'd always complain about that. You know not getting paid enough. And he'd say, for God's sakes, Patricia, you didn't go into healthcare to help the walking wounded to make millions of dollars. It was, you know, my brother was schooled in Boston and spoke like a typical Bostonian, the austere nature of his self.
But it wasn't what I was in for the ride. Like all of us, Mary, we didn't go and do this to make millions. We went in and I can say I've never lost that, that passion of wanting to make a difference. And that I think that's part of being able to care out loud is, at this stage of my career, I care out loud in a bold way.
Because I don't feel like I need to remain within the construct [00:28:00] of what people think nursing is. And I was able to, the other thing that I, we really haven't talked about is that I was able to cross the boundaries and mesh what people thought physicians and nurses did. I. I ran a program in Cincinnati after I left Cincinnati Children's that was it was an HHS, a quality improvement and health IT project that was funded in 17 communities, and it was the only nurse led one in the country because they posted it for a physician.
And I said you don't need a physician to do this job, I'm qualified to do it and they hired me. And I, I would say my same job is the chief for quality and safety. And I'm not just discounting that my physician colleagues, I, I will tell you, I've had great partnerships over the years of my physician colleagues, but I was able to demonstrate.
The breath and knowledge that a solid nurse leader can bring to achieve from quality and safety position. [00:29:00] And I do think I was well respected in that role. So, so when I care out loud, I care out loud to say to other nurses to the world and to our communities to say. As nurses. This is who we can be.
Yes, it's who I've been, you know, follow me if you want, but find your own path, just as importantly, right, just like you found your own path.
Mary Coughlin: It's the only way to live your best self. Find your own path, break down those silos because those silos aren't really serving anybody. And who ends up paying the biggest price is, is the patient, the family, society at large.
When we continue to just, you know, isolate ourselves and, and act out these roles that really don't represent our core mission, our core calling for the work that we've chosen, whether it's nursing. Medicine rehabilitation and therapy, whatever that path is, we need to commingle and [00:30:00] cross pollinate to really being bring the best of all of us.
Yes. Yeah, that's a great
Patti Bondurant: way to say it because I am a better. I am a better professional I'm a better nurse. For my relationships with my staff, yeah, with you know, this generation that, that we're all leading now that I don't, we listened, I have to listen to, they understand things that I don't understand.
But, so I would say, I don't always just look up I look to the people who are now at the front line that's continue to teach me. I look to my physician colleagues who I adore. And that I've learned from, I look at to my therapist colleagues and what they've taught me over the years about the, how do we be a gentle in nature while we deliver this brutal care?
I've learned so much from the people and I, you have to keep your ears and your heart open to all of that. And I I've learned in a non traditional way. And [00:31:00] I appreciate that.
Mary Coughlin: Oh my goodness, Pattie you are a rock star, my friend. This, I am so grateful that you've shared your time, your wisdom, your story with me and everyone who's listening.
This has been incredible. I, I do have one final question for you. So I like to do this is kind of an evolution of what I did with my season one series and asking a question that kind of takes people by surprise. So sit, sit straight, hold onto your armrest there. And I'm going to ask you kind of rapid fire, a few of your favorite things.
I don't want you to think too hard about it. First thing that comes into your head. Favorite book,
Patti Bondurant: leading change.
Mary Coughlin: Favorite movie.
Patti Bondurant: Love story.
Mary Coughlin: Love it.
Patti Bondurant: Favorite song. Hang on now. I've got all my, my Christmas music on here. [00:32:00] Hang on. Perfect.
Mary Coughlin: Oh, that is a good one. Yeah. That
Patti Bondurant: is a good one. I'd say that's my most contemporary favorite song is perfect. It is a combination of all the feelings I have on a regular basis.
Mary Coughlin: Oh my goodness, Patty. Thank you so very much. Well, he's going to ask you favorite activity.
Patti Bondurant: Oh I still have to say skiing. I was thinking you might say that. Yeah. It is such a peaceful place for me.
Mary Coughlin: That's awesome. And favorite color. Love it. Yes, of course, girl.
Patti Bondurant: Yeah. It's my pink is power for me. Yep.
Mary Coughlin: Power for me as well as Patty. Yeah. I love pink. Yep.
Patti Bondurant: I think we've been connected in many ways over the years, so it just was nice to reconnect with you and what your work you're doing.
Mary Coughlin: I think being a nurse and doing this work, helps me see the relevance and the importance of it on such a larger scope, you know that [00:33:00] that we're all patients, you know, I mean we all have that potential and so it's so important to be able to see that it's not just.
these individuals or these individuals. we all need to feel seen loved treated with dignity and respect. but I also being a clinician can see that it's not that all of these people that get trained are barbaric, heartless. robots. No, they also have their own story of sorrow and pain, and they've been jaded by the system and all these other factors.
And so really understanding that has been such an important. evolution and growth for myself to, to see that, this is not a, binary world. There's nothing binary about, and people need to be reminded of that and connected with it.
Patti Bondurant: You know, I love that Mary and none of us are spared the pain that life brings us. Right. And, and we have, I [00:34:00] think as nurses, we have an obligation to make sure we're healed and present. Yes. When we're with these new leaders, when we're with these, these staff that are looking to us for guidance. Yeah. And these families who look to us to help get their babies home.
There's nothing more important than what we do.
Mary Coughlin: There is nothing. There is nothing. Yeah. Florence hit the nail on the head about us managing that human experience. That's
Patti Bondurant: exactly right. It's an awesome task.
Mary Coughlin: It is an awesome and so rewarding. Yes. Challenging, which, you know, I mean the adrenaline side of me loves the challenge of it.
And, and that you're We always get to grow and evolve in that. I'm not the same person I was 45 minutes ago, you know, just from my encounter and experience with you. And to be able to be present and know that is such a gift, you know, and as a good leader, I mean, that's what you teach. You know, those that you're, [00:35:00] you're grooming for those positions, right.
Is to be present, to be intentional, to be awake,
Patti Bondurant: to, yeah, to be awake. And, and honestly to be a bit of a rule breaker, Mary, you got to do it. Got to do it. And, you know, nurses are, are, we're, we're all trained to do what we're told to do, good nurses break rules. Good
Mary Coughlin: nurses break rules. you have to start to become awake and aware to that residual misogyny that's left over in our society at large, that it's that systemic trauma that's all around us, but you can't see it,
it's not helping you and it's not helping you help others.
Patti Bondurant: Right. It's so perfectly said Mary.
Mary Coughlin: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
