Emily Spaeth
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Mary Coughlin: [00:00:00] Well, I am super excited about my next guest, Emily Spaeth.
Emily Spaeth: ~I ~
Mary Coughlin: I would just love for you to share your journey. And how have you arrived to your current
Emily Spaeth: role? Well, when I met you, It's a long story. When I met you, I was working as the only physical therapist in the NICU.
It was a 56 bed unit and a level four, it was a lot. And I came to it because I started working as a flex physical therapist, just Floating around the hospital and I realized that there was one occupational therapist in charge of the entire unit and she was drowning and I went to the interim director of rehab for the hospital and I was new, I was young and [00:01:00] fresh and I was like, what are you doing?
He was the interim director. So he didn't know really the therapist and he just didn't know that there should be multiple physical therapists and occupational therapists in the NICU. And so he went to bat for our team and requested a 1. 0 FTE for PT. And I was like, good job.
And then he emailed me. And he said, Emily, you're going to apply for this, right? I got it for you, you know, and so it was this everything just fell into place and immediately I felt like I just needed more education. So I did the Ignite program and I did Launch and I did your program and I did the NTMTC program, Neonatal Touch and Massage, and I did the Sophie Feeding Method and I just, like, dove in.
In full throttle, every course I could [00:02:00] find on med bridge, you know and I just needed that backing of some education for what I was providing. But what was amazing was my career actually started as a yoga teacher and a massage therapist before I became a physical therapist. So I walked into the NICU already understanding the nervous system.
And understanding massage. So I started providing infant massage in the NICU as soon as I got there. And there were so many hoops that we had to jump through in order to get an oil that was appropriate for babies. But for the first six months or so, they were like, here, use Vaseline. Oh, yeah.
So it ended up just being a lot of red tape every step of the way, but the more credentials I collected [00:03:00] and the more research I was able to get and the more conversations I could have with the product designers like Dandelion and people who really are creating these products that are safe for neonatal skin, I was able to get oil and make that part of the product.
Our team's practice. You pioneer you. I really was. I just felt like it should already have been that way, right? And then of course, you know, I got pregnant with my second baby while I was working full time in the NICU and immediately started noticing just in my own body how other people's trauma, how my patient's trauma was affecting me.
And when I was 23 weeks pregnant, I met a baby on the other side. It was 23 weeks with the exact same due date and her [00:04:00] mom and I connected on this deep level, but my baby was still inside and her baby was on the outside, you know, struggling for life. And she was advocating so, so hard for her baby and getting pushed back and just, it was this really incredible look.
And of course, by this point, I had already taken your initial training where, for those of you who haven't done this in person training, one of the aspects is that you're blindfolded and Mary and her team goes around and like, claps in your ear and rubs your shoulders. And although I don't know if we can do that anymore with COVID.
But it's sort of what happens when you are in the hospital. And then also When you're a neonate and you don't have the ability to move your own body or advocate for yourself, things are just happening to you all the time. The lights are going on and off and movement is fast when it really needs to be [00:05:00] slow.
And so it was just, I was already in that sort of mindset. And then I went on maternity leave. And that's when I took the trauma informed professional program. First of all, I had the time, which is valuable, you know, and being able to be introspective and there's so much personal growth and personal thought that goes into your program that I think doing it when I was just trying to focus on my baby and my body was really, really valuable.
~ ~
Emily Spaeth: I just find it so fascinating the way you described the connection that you had with the woman who was really mirroring. Your pregnancy journey, but in a in a very different way. What was kind of going through your head as that experience was really unfolding for you like right there in the moment.
. [00:06:00] I definitely in retrospect have a much greater understanding of what my body was going through during that pregnancy. And I think at the time I felt a lot of guilt for having a healthy pregnancy.
Mary Coughlin: The guilt piece that you mentioned, I think, being open hearted and empathic is probably one of the reasons why so many folks In healthcare at large and certainly in the NICU experience burnout.
There's this wicked cool author who I love. Her name is Joan Halifax. And I may have mentioned her in the program. She's a Buddhist nun and she's done a lot of work with compassion, fatigue, And, you know, with, with clinicians that work with folks with life limiting situations
and one of the things that she talks about is this idea of empathic [00:07:00] distress and other edge states in healers, that sometimes when you're not paying attention to your, your wiring, right, then you, you tend to not be able to be. present and intentional about how you serve other but also preserve yourself, right?
And when you're not paying attention to the two sides of that, you can easily slip into this place where you feel the guilt, you feel bad, you almost get lost in the other person's suffering and lose sight of where You end and they begin.
Emily Spaeth: Absolutely. And I think, especially for me, I did a lot of, I have to set a firmer boundary.
I have to set a harder line [00:08:00] emotionally. And what that did for me, because I am so empathic and I want to connect and I want, I want the parents to feel like I'm there with them every step of the way. And because of that, I forgot I was pregnant. I didn't know barely anything about my pregnancy. And I ended up with really severe pudendal neuralgia and really, really had a hard time with walking. And so towards the end of my pregnancy, I ended up going out at 36 weeks just because of pain.
And I think that was the. Best possible thing for my nervous system so that it creates some distance between their stories and mine.
Mary Coughlin: Yeah. I mean, that's, that's a skill and that we need to really build competence in. It's really about, and you used the word boundary, and I think a lot of us get weird about the word boundary because we think boundary is we're walling ourselves off. But really, it's just paying [00:09:00] attention to, for me, I think of our cup. I'm paying attention to it. What, where's the tipping point where I'm too low in reserve or in, in what I'm able to give in this moment.
And so I need to kind of step back. It doesn't mean that I'm short changing the other or or trying to not be present and connected with them. It's just realizing that in order for me to do that, I need to take care of myself. And so it's interesting when you were saying that you forgot that you were pregnant.
I mean, you were so lost in your service to other, which is absolutely beautiful and noble. But what it means though, is you're on the short track. You can't give as much as you'd like to give because you give until you're empty.
Emily Spaeth: Right, which is what I saw in retrospect, because in our training, I did the trauma informed professional [00:10:00] training, I think, one of the first few months in 2021.
And I, noticed how when I sat down to write anything or journal or think about my own trauma, it came from This lack of ability to create a healthy boundary because there is, there is a healthy boundary, right? Like you said, it's wonderful. But then there's also the kind of wall that I was creating where like, I don't exist, my body's not really here.
I'm here for you. And that, that difference in juxtaposition was really. Highlighted as I was coming back from maternity leave and trying to create better boundaries with work. And what ended up happening was I took a craniosacral course for infants and as a massage therapist, I have had a lot of experience with a ton of different [00:11:00] modalities, but craniosacral was one that I hadn't ever explored.
And as part of this course, we had a free clinic for the community. And at the end of this course, I. Was seated with six different families throughout the course of the clinic. And each time I heard their birth experience and then provided some type of very gentle body work to their baby to help them.
Ease their way into this world. Now, what happened was that these were NICU families that were in the community. And I was thinking like, wait a minute. I get to see the babies who are really, really suffering and have a lot of really clear clinical delays or, you know, high NICU. [00:12:00] But. I didn't see the kids who went home when their parents were suffering every day.
With the things that a NICU physician is not going to pay any attention to because they're good. They're healthy, their vitals are stable, and they're at the door. I was seeing families who weren't in the NICU who were suffering because their babies were having trouble feeding. You know, and there were all of these things that just kept pointing back to.
Nervous system regulation. And I had this sort of epiphany why don't I go to people's homes? Because that's where they need, this. And so I started a business just like that. Viral
Mary Coughlin: view, wild child
Emily Spaeth: view. So yeah, I started Be Well Baby PDX and started just dabbling and offering free services all over the community. And It became clear that my business was going to be successful. I was starting to find that my business [00:13:00] was capable of supporting the yoga background that I have in teaching prenatal and postpartum yoga.
The massage background and all the different ways that I touch people for healing, the physical therapy background and pelvic floor health, as well as my NICU background and my understanding of lactation. I became an IBCLC and decided that I would sort of blend all of those things to just be a full spectrum.
Person for anyone in the prenatal or postpartum period and their baby. And it's like a dream come true. This is something that I envisioned in physical therapy school and thought like, no, that's too many things or no, nobody could ever really make that work. And it's working and it's really, really amazing.
So what happened was in early 2023, I was sitting down to dinner with my husband [00:14:00] and it was one of the rare date nights because, you know, two kids that are little, and I. Just was thinking about how incredible and how powerful motherhood is, how powerful matrescence is and how you really have to transform into this new being as a mother and how that is just It's taken from so many of our patients and that transformation maybe happens after the NICU.
Mary Coughlin: Yeah. I have to interrupt you for one quick second. What was that word you used?
It sounds very I trust you.
Emily Spaeth: That word? So, matrescence is this, it's a transitional word the definition of matrescence is the becoming of a mother. So, your transition into motherhood. And it is. It's [00:15:00] considered by occupational therapists, it's considered an occupation, that transition is your job for that time and and it can take years.
It can take months. It's different for everyone and it looks different for everyone, but especially for first time parents, the first time they hold a baby, them being called mom. Or whatever they're going to go by is not necessarily just innate. It, it forms and morphs and exists as the separate transition that occurs over time and over many, many occasions of being the person that sues your baby or the person who feeds your baby for some people that, and it's just a complex continual transition.
That
Mary Coughlin: makes sense. Gorgeous. Thank you. I'm sorry to interrupt [00:16:00] you. But I, you were saying about, you were having this discussion with your
Emily Spaeth: husband. And so, I mean, and you were just saying it's gorgeous. That is what I was saying. I was almost in tears, just like weeping about the beauty of motherhood and the power that we have as mothers.
And. The incredible ability of our bodies to birth babies and then feed them and just everything. My husband looked at me and he said, you need to pull yourself together. I think you might be pregnant.
And I was, and in that moment, I knew, I knew that I couldn't stay in the NICU anymore. Yeah. It was this moment of I, I don't want to do pregnancy silently again. Yeah. I want to be fully present with my body [00:17:00] as I grow another human life this time. So I decided that in order to be the present mother that I wanted to be, and in order to serve the greater community, I wanted to dedicate all of my time to building my business.
So I did, and it broke my heart to leave the NICU and to leave my team. I knew it was the right thing to do. I still keep coming back to all of the aspects of the trauma informed professional program, because I now not only work with little babies and their parents, but I work with people in pregnancy and whatever trauma they're coming to that pregnancy with.
I'm just always, always, always using those aspects. Like kindness and generosity are things that I felt were [00:18:00] just part of who I was before the training, but now I sort of have this framework where I can think more clearly this act of yesterday, I gave away a big box of newborn diapers to a pregnant.
Client because someone else gave me this box of newborn diapers and just that simple act of giving her some things she might need is going to pay it forward in exponential ways, the way that she goes home to treat her toddler, maybe the way that her toddler then treats her dad, you know, and remembering that, Everything that you do has an impact.
Mary Coughlin: I love this story. Because I've always believed that you're in the right place at the right time. Like there, there are no accidents. There are no coincidences and it's so exemplified. In the story that you're sharing, you know your origins, right? I mean, you know, beginning as a [00:19:00] yoga instructor, advancing into physical therapy and then really trying to figure out how do I weave all of these together?
And what's so wicked cool is that it just all came together. You just felt this. It seems I don't want to put words in your mouth, but that this passion and wisdom just kind of all fused together and was birthed in, you know, the discovery of your pregnancy with your newest child.
And, and I also just want to kind of call out when you shared how difficult it was to leave the NICU, but you knew you needed to leave the NICU and how that just really exemplifies that you can have two incredibly opposing emotions. And that's natural and normal. You know, I mean, because I think kind of pulling that into the NICU, ~because I think a lot of the folks that listen are from the NICU, but you know, wherever you are, you know, that ~ the urgent need that these moms have to be present, that they can [00:20:00] be sad and be joyful simultaneously. And that we as clinicians need to reconnect with that reality, that expansiveness of our humanity that you've just so eloquently described in kind of this mosaic of the work that you do, you know, that everything makes a connection.
But I think when we move through our lives and our professional careers with this very biomedical, mechanistic or reductionist approach, we miss out on experiencing all the gorgeousness, all the beauty, all of the complexity and messiness that is the joy of being human and getting to bear witness and make those important connections with others.
Emily Spaeth: Absolutely. I think there's also a piece that's missing of the [00:21:00] introduction of touch. You know, we touch the babies in the NICU all the time, but initial introduction of touch. I've had so many families over the years who have Take in that one thing that I teach them of slowly bringing your hands over your baby and gently placing your hands on your baby.
Allow your hands to melt into your baby, you know, and that is how they introduce touch to their baby every single time. And that's not just for an ICU baby, that's for Any baby if we are moving too quickly, we are missing the opportunity to connect with them, right?
Mary Coughlin: It's that idea of procedural touch versus loving touch, right? And We can do both. We can fuse, a loving touch with the procedures that we have to do [00:22:00] and help convey a sense of safety and being seen for these babies and families. But we have to be present to it, right? We have to get out of our own way and open up our hearts to realizing what's really unfolding right in front of us.
There's a miracle right there in front of us. And if we, if we don't appreciate that, if we don't acknowledge that, then, I mean, yes, we're harming that little person, but we're also diminishing our own selves as well.
Emily Spaeth: And the human experience, I think there's just I did one training with the residents Where I did what you did to us.
I made them close their eyes and we went around and we like clapped in their faces and it was so eye opening for them. They were [00:23:00] shocked. And this was not just for the NICU because our residents kind of float everywhere. I was So excited to hear them coming back in the PICU and back on the floors and talking about how, okay, when we go into this room, we're going to be really quiet and we're going to turn the lights on after we ask.
And it was, a really wonderful activity for them to see in their own bodies and with their own nervous systems. What does that do to a person? And how can you expect that person to heal if their body doesn't feel safe? Yeah.
Mary Coughlin: I mean, I think if, and you kind of gave that example, right? You forgot you were pregnant.
You became disconnected really from your body. And we all do that. There's so much to do. To think about that oftentimes we do disengage with our physicality. We become disembodied and we're just these brains, moving around and doing, doing, [00:24:00] doing.
And when we have that opportunity to get reconnected with our bodies, I think it does. It flips a switch that really helps us use that experience because we've now actually had, we can make those connections, and then we can draw from that experience to help guide it.
You know, it's not a guarantee that it'll stick, you know, and that you'll keep remembering, but it is a great way, particularly for newbies, you know, for folks that haven't really been exposed to a lot of Transcribed You know, we just create these bad habits and these bad routines. I mean, I should probably use the word bad, but routines and things that don't really serve, don't really reflect our highest intention work that we're, that we, that we want to do and that we're called to do.
Emily Spaeth: There's also that idea that you bring of the healing intention, and I think it's really, it serves us to [00:25:00] not only have a healing intention towards someone that we're working with, but also towards ourselves. And that is one of the biggest takeaways from the Trauma Informed Professional Program because if we are not regulated, if we are not okay, then there's no way that what we're doing is going to help someone else.
Mary Coughlin: Really, it really is that simple. But I think so many of us get accultured into the world, society at large, and certainly our work to just stuff it down, you know, like nobody really wants to hear or think about whatever you're dealing with. And so we detach from it almost even dissociate from it and think that, you know, that the actions are what's needed, but what's really needed.
By any other person and certainly people that are in the throes of overwhelm and pain and suffering that they need your whole presence, your [00:26:00] whole self, your whole loving heart, you know, to really just kind of show up for them. But when it's not there, right, you know, you can feel it, right? Wouldn't you say that, Emily?
I mean, I think you can feel when somebody is not fully there.
Emily Spaeth: Yes. I've actually had that feedback from families that I've worked with when especially there are new or training or students that they, they're too worried about the learning and the, the doing the exam correctly in the right order, then they're not able to connect with the student in front of them.
Mary Coughlin: And that makes a big impact on folks and particularly when they're in the throes of vulnerability because of whatever situation they're dealing with or whatever illness they're dealing with that can actually add. more of a painful burden to that person because they don't feel seen and that can make it [00:27:00] feel even worse.
Yeah, you've had an incredible journey. I would just love to get a sense from you then has this journey from yoga instructor all the way up to now successful entrepreneur serving community, And how has this impacted your understanding or importance of a trauma perspective or a trauma informed approach to care?
Emily Spaeth: Hmm. I think that what it all comes down to is Nervous system regulation. And community connection and peer support. So there's this fear of support and influence that can come from outside, but if your nervous system is dysregulated and if you. are not able to calm yourself down and have [00:28:00] tools to do that, then it's impossible to heal.
It's impossible to help someone else heal. And that even just, this can be really tricky because it can feel trite to say, okay, we're going to take a deep breath together with someone for the first time. But breathing is so important. And What I tend to do because the reason I say that is that that's happened to me before where the first time I meet a provider, I'm like, let's take a deep breath.
And I'm like, okay. You know, but, but that's before they've gotten to know me or connected in any way. And so I think it can be really useful to, as providers, to connect with your own grounding nervous system tools. So get yourself really well grounded where you are [00:29:00] and breathe. And when you take a deep breath, they will take a deep breath.
Mary Coughlin: It's role modeling. I mean, when you kind of going around, the lens as a, trauma informed professional, I can role model things that, that come from a place of authenticity and not just a place where a checkbox, I'm supposed to calm them down.
So I heard taking a deep breath will help you calm down. So, let's just take a nice deep breath. And it's probably very well intended, but as you said, it can come across with a lack of sincerity and authenticity that actually doesn't get, the results that you want, because now I just feel like you're a jerk.
You're telling me to do something that doesn't feel genuine.
Emily Spaeth: Yeah, and I can share this story. I had, you know, because you don't always do it right the first time. No. Right? So I, I had this set of twins and I was working with one of them and the parents hadn't been [00:30:00] in, but I had been told that these parents were traumatized.
That's all. That's all I had been told. And, you know, what does that really mean? So, right. So, I, I was just doing some containment with one of the twins while the nurse was doing her cares and I don't even remember what I said to this nurse. Parent, but it was some sort of educational, something also. Hi, I'm Emily.
This is what I do in the NICU. That's a whole, whole introductory thing. But even that she looked at me and she said, I'm so sorry. I can't hear. And it just like, I was like, okay. So what had happened was I was working on her baby, but her three year old was in that bed space. Three years ago. Oh, and her ears were ringing because [00:31:00] she was like seeing what had happened to her before.
Mary Coughlin: Okay. I'm late.
Emily Spaeth: Yeah. And as a physical therapist in the NICU, this is my job, I'm here, I'm helping the babies. But like, that is the most traumatic moment for her, for potentially her whole life. And to be able to pivot in that moment, and like, be able to say thank you to the patient, remove my hands, and get her a chair.
And just her, that's what she needed. And luckily in the NICU, there are neonatal therapists who have a little bit more time and a little bit more space in their scope of practice to be able to. Be here now with that moment for that person. And I just remember it was such a huge learning opportunity [00:32:00] for me because I was like, she hates me.
And then when she was like, I can't hear, I was like, okay, I know what that means, you know? And ultimately she didn't stay for longer than two minutes. We got her a chair then her husband was like, we're going to go. And then I was able to reconnect with them on a different day in a different bed space because I asked for the twins to be moved.
And and we ended up having an incredibly rich and wonderful therapeutic relationship. We could laugh about those first few moments of me trying to be all professional and cute when it was just not the appropriate time.
Mary Coughlin: Yeah. But I mean, that takes such courage though, Emily, to do that, to be able to see it.
I mean, and you have all the feelings, right. And that are, that are just kind of like storming in on you and respond [00:33:00] thoughtfully and lovingly to the situation and then be able to just. Take it forward and not this isn't about boundaries, right? Not like shields up I can never talk to this person again because I feel like I've hurt them or whatever and it and you get lost in your feelings about the situation Which I'm not trying to say are not valid they are but your feelings are In reaction to some hurt that was not intentional, perceived hurt, it was not intentional and you have an opportunity to move beyond that.
And I think that's where a lot of us can get stuck, you know, that vulnerability piece can just paralyze you and kudos to you for, having the vulnerability. Which is, that in and of itself is a strength, but then to have the courage to step over that, have the feels, step [00:34:00] over it and process it with this other person who was probably also feeling like what's happening to me now.
She probably thinks I'm a lunatic, we just have those, those experiences, but when we fail to connect on them. And move through it, we're left with two hurting people versus resolving that hurt, right? So that we can meet
Emily Spaeth: together. Yeah. And as the person who's working in the NICU, it doesn't matter what the profession is.
It's not about you. It's never, ever about you. Right. It's all about them. This is their story and we're just characters in it. We really have to be able to play our role, but also not shy away from those hard conversations.
Mary Coughlin: Yeah. It really is. It's about making those connections. And I think you've highlighted that beautifully. Just listening to all of the, all of the [00:35:00] work that you've done and all of the work that you are now doing and will be doing in the future as you continue to grow your community of service.
It's really about caring out loud, right? It's really about just stepping into your calling and living it, living that mission, living that purpose and spreading the joy. So,
what is carrying out loud look like at your company, So
Emily Spaeth: at Be Well Baby PDX, I, the PDX is for Portland, Oregon. It's the name of our airport. Also, BeWellBaby. com wasn't available. So Be Well Baby PDX. PDX, love it. I think that I'm really going to take that forward one of the most incredible things about. What I'm able to do now is I run my own support group it's the Be Well Baby support group. And I always have a speaker come and it's, it's much more structured and there's a lot of learning I have so many. [00:36:00] Different groups of postpartum people that I can refer you to any day of the week. So that is one of the biggest ways that I sort of spread love and bring love into the community is knowing where to send people for free resources or lower cost resources.
And then I also am offering my own workshops and of course, one on one home visits. I think treating in the home is. It's the best, most effective way to treat anyone, especially a baby, because this is our environment and it'll
Mary Coughlin: save, it feels secure
Emily Spaeth: I think just being able to be invited into someone's home is such an honor to be able to serve people in their homes.
Mary Coughlin: I think you're absolutely right. And your work it just sounds absolutely wonderful and certainly well received which is such a blessing as well. Before we close out our conversation here, I just wanted to [00:37:00] ask you if there's one nugget of wisdom or insight that you've gained over this journey that you shared with us today that you'd love to share with the world.
Emily Spaeth: Ask this question to everyone.
Mary Coughlin: Do.
Emily Spaeth: I think my wisdom is to
reach out to people. Yeah. And connect, and really connect. Because. We are living in this post ish COVID world, where we think we're allowed to be closer to each other, but it still feels scary, and we're not good at it anymore. I was talking to my friend's 11 year old, and she said, Oh yeah, I have this monthly [00:38:00] get together with my friends on the phone, where we stay up all night, and we talk on the phone.
And I was like, why don't we do this in person? Like, why don't, why don't you have a sleepover? She said, it's so awkward to be in person with my friends. I know. So, connect with your kids, connect with your friends kids, connect your kids with other kids, connect with your community. I think one of the biggest things about my daughter starting kindergarten was the number of kids on our street who are in her class.
Mary Coughlin: Awesome.
Emily Spaeth: So cool. And now she can run two doors down, knock on someone's door and see if they're home. And it's that. Feel of safety in our community that I wanted when I moved here and I never really could figure out why it didn't [00:39:00] feel good. And it's just that I didn't know the people we live next to.
Yeah. And the community just feels like it's growing. And by growing, I just mean like, I know more people because I'm connecting with more people and. It doesn't take a lot of connection to make a huge impact on your life and on someone else's life. So you never know who you're going to meet.
Mary Coughlin: Yeah. That's absolutely gorgeous. I mean, and I think it has been a journey and a process for folks, recovering from that COVID, that isolation mindset and, you know, All of the distractions, you know the gadgets and the social media and the zooms and all these other things can create that.
It almost feels now. Awkward and stepping out of our comfort zone again to reconnect. But once you do. It feels like the bike riding thing, right? You know you haven't ridden a bike for a while, [00:40:00] but then once you get on that bike is you're a little bit wobbly, but then you're often running or often cycling and no time flat.
So hopefully we're moving that way. And you're certainly a beautiful exemplar of how to foster that and how to reconnect with, with those that we serve, but even with each other, with our neighbors, with the folks at the supermarket, just really reestablishing that rapport.
That's, what's really gonna, I think change the world. Absolutely. Oh, Emily. Thank you so very much. I can't even begin to tell you how much I appreciate you sharing your time, your wisdom, your passion and everything. You're just fantastic. Thank you so much.
Emily Spaeth: My pleasure, Mary. I am honored that you asked me to come on your podcast and it was just such a lovely conversation.
Mary Coughlin: It really was. It was wonderful.
